Marketing and Sales Alignment

The Alignment Advantage Podcast Sales and Marketing Edition Josh Brannan Interview

Benjamin Ard: [00:00:00] Hello and welcome to the Alignment Advantage Podcast, brought to you by massett. This is the sales and marketing edition. In this edition, we interview some of the greatest sales and marketing minds in all of tech. We have a huge emphasis on internal alignment and believe that can be a superpower for your business.

We hope you enjoy the interview. All right, dude, to kick this off, first of all, thanks for being on here. I'm gonna start off in a weird way. I got a //dad joke for you and that's a question, so I wanna see if you can get it. So just kind of a fun way to start things off. What do you call a factory that makes Okay products?

Any clue what? Nope. A satisfactory.

Josh Brannan: Yeah. Yeah. That's a, that is definitely a dad joke.

Benjamin Ard: Yep. Came from like 35 Good Dad jokes .//com or whatever. So there you go.

Josh Brannan: Did you pick the worst one out of all of them? Is that what you decided? Start the bottom. That's like a headliner.

Benjamin Ard: That's a good one. Oh, you know, it only gets, [00:01:00] it gets worse from here, so.

The best one. Hey, man. Well, I want to do a, a quick introduction and just kinda have people get to know who you are a little bit. Love your background. I mean, a little bit on the personal side and professional side. Catch up, you know, up to speed of, of where you're at in your career. You're in sales. You're an amazing salesperson and leader.

I've been able to work with you. I worked with you at Weave for quite a few years. Love to get just a, a quick background from your perspective and catch us up to speed so everyone can kind of get to know you a little bit.

Josh Brannan: Yeah, sounds good. Man, where to start? Let's see. After college went to, moved to San Francisco and started in the world of finance as a sales rep.

This was back in early 2001 before there were SDRs. So it was full sales cycle. I sold money to small businesses. I've been working with small businesses for 20 plus years. But I really learned at that [00:02:00] point when it comes to sales, you know, not only are you selling a product, but more so you're selling yourself and you're getting people comfortable with you.

More so than what with what you're buying. I mean, selling money, everybody had it. My, my money was just as green as everybody else's, so the only differentiator was really me. And I think I also learned it was such a numbers game as well. The more calls I made, the more opportunities I had. I mean, this was probably making 150 plus calls a day, but really only spending on average 20 seconds on a call and moving on.

So did that for about seven years, and then I had an opportunity to get into the SaaS world. And it was my, you know, first first introduction into sas. Didn't really understand how to sell a product. And especially a product that is, is non you know, you can't grab it. It's software. But again, took, took what I learned from selling [00:03:00] money, which is, hey, make the dials.

It's a numbers game. Then start realizing, hey, if I make 150 calls, I can get to, you know, X number of sales, and then can I make a hundred calls and still get to the same number of sales? So really working on my craft and trying to get more outta what I was doing, but still working my ass off. And as hard as possible.

Yeah. So I did that for, did that software sales for about five years, got the opportunity to start to build sales teams, right? If you do well at what you do, then eventually somebody comes along and says, Hey, can we duplicate you? And so I did that for a few years, was able to duplicate myself into a team of five, a team of 10, a team of of 50, and then eventually became a head of sales over the healthcare division at Demand Force, and did that for a few years until Demand force was acquired by Intuit in 2012.

Worked for Intuit for a few years, realized that I hated working for a large [00:04:00] company. Absolutely. The, just, just not enjoyed it too much red tape people. Yep. Have jobs to just get by rather than come in, enjoy themselves. So I left there, took about six months off, played some golf, enjoyed my kids for a minute, and then got recruited by Brandon at Weave to move to Utah.

Never thought I was gonna be moving to Utah, but picked up the family and the the kids and moved out to Utah in 2015. Where Brandon gave me the opportunity to be VP of Sales at Weave. We were, I think we were around 7 million at the time. Sounds, yeah. And we went from seven to like 10 million in the first year.

Didn't do too great. Went from 10 to 17 million. In year two and then really started to grow the outbound side of the sales team, which is what the focus was for me, is to build that muscle of [00:05:00] outbound. We had some good inbound happening, but really the growth came with outbound and we were able to go from 17 million to 35 million the year after that, 35 to 70, and then 70 to about a hundred million.

So I was with we for about five years. And left Weave. Have been doing some consulting for the last year or so, which has been fun, but really missed the every day being part of a team. And so I got an opportunity to join another startup, and this is me, like all the way back down to the ground, just figuring it all out, doing demos on the phones, following up with leads, a hundred calls a day, doing anything and everything to try to make something work.

But it, it's where I find myself most passionate is really just trying to understand the ins and outs of it so I can help grow a team again and, Be able to develop [00:06:00] and train a lot of young salespeople so they can go on and grow their careers as well. That's, I love it. That's kind of the let's see.

That was about 20 years of my life

Benjamin Ard: right there. That's awesome. That's great. So I have a fun story. I don't think you remember this. I'd be shocked if you remember this, but this happened at Weave. This was in that building right across from the movie theater. We're in there. I remember it was just like outside of Brandon's office.

And you're like, Hey Ben, I need you to run a report. I don't even remember what the report was, to be completely honest. And I think I was like in a foul mood, so I was kinda snarky back at you. I was like, are we actually gonna use this data and actually do anything with it? And your response was like, actually taking a second to think about it and you're like, no, don't run the data.

And then you just walked off. I was like, there's someone that values someone's time and feedback and data and actually understands, okay, cool. Like. If it's not gonna be actionable, I'm not gonna do it. And I have always respected that. I've told that story a million times. I guarantee you don't [00:07:00] remember it, but I thought it was awesome.

I, I don't remember

Josh Brannan: it. I don't unfortunately, but it is one of those things that I, I spend so much time running reports and in realizing to myself, it's like, this is just a waste of time. And so I, I would hope over the years I've realized it where I'm like, if somebody were to ever ask me like, Hey, Is this gonna be useful?

Are we gonna do it? And I'm like, you know, that's a great question because it's like the question you should ask out of anything is, wait, why do you want me to do this? And it's hard to ask that from people that you work with or people that work for you or whatever you work for somebody else. Like, wait a second, why?

But we should be asking ourselves that, which is why it's the, it's the five year old question. It's my kids, why daddy? And you know, all I wanna do is say, because I said so. And they're like, yeah, it's not gonna work. Yep. Yep. Exactly. I, I I know exactly what you mean. I've, I've asked that question to many [00:08:00] people before, and the main thing that I've always come up with is, okay, if we're gonna do it, then what is the result we're looking for?

How are we gonna achieve that? What is our hypothesis? Like, why are we doing this? We're gonna measure it. Then we might as well follow it through.

Benjamin Ard: And one thing, like along those lines that I think was helpful that I learned towards the tail end of Weave, when you're gonna go run an experiment or go try something new, like you better be able to build that report or figure out how you're gonna track it before you do it.

Because after you go out there and try something, nobody wants to go run that report. And it's so frustrating. We're like, well, how did it go? And you're like, well, it felt like it went well. And, and if you don't build that in advance and prove that you have that report done. And you can look at the data and say, yes, it was successful, or no, it wasn't.

And it's not even just the data, it's like what metric do we have to achieve to be successful? And then after the fact, if you have that report before you do it and then after it, you show that data [00:09:00]way better. And I think way too many people are like, sweet, let's run an experiment. I have no idea how I'm gonna tell you if it works or not, but I'm gonna go run it and it's gonna be fun.

But I think it takes a lot of discipline to actually look at the data and ask why

Josh Brannan: upfront. Yeah, there's especially in sales, I mean, I don't think I'll ever get away from a gut feeling. In sales, right? Like I have a gut feeling, I think this is gonna work. I think we should try this, right? There's always gonna be that.

But what I've learned, you know, running revenue operations for a few years and really trying to hone my skills on how data tells a story, is that if you can come up with a hypothesis at the beginning to say, okay, we want to achieve x. Well, how many different ways are there to achieve it? There's probably three or four or five levers, but if we pull 'em all or we just try a few at a time, then we have way too many variables.

But if we're able to say, Hey, we wanna achieve X, we're gonna pull lever A, and this is how we're gonna report against it, and this is what [00:10:00] the definition of success looks like, it allows us to have all that set up prior to ever even running the experiment. And then we can say like, okay, we did achieve it.

Now can we even make it better? But we know the other levers already that we need to be pulled.

Benjamin Ard: Yep. Yeah. And I think the hardest part with experimentation is every time you get a result, that becomes your new baseline. And you have to make sure, like worst case scenario is you don't go below the baseline.

Right? That's how you know you're actually building on it. Because you know the law of if I get 1% better every single day for a year, you're like 300% better, right? But at the end of the day, if your tests aren't actually making you better, they're just replacing results. That's where it gets frustrating.

Cuz you're like, yeah, I got way better. But then you run another test that completely wipes them out. And so just like the ability to say baseline. Just moved up. Just moved up. Just moved up just like you talked with the revenue that we was getting. The baseline has to [00:11:00] move up because you can't just say, cool, like another million dollar month.

Like that's not good enough at this point in time, even though two years ago, two years ago, it was great.

Josh Brannan: Yeah. And you gotta be careful that the tests you're running aren't just busy work. You're not just running tests just to run tests. Yeah. Like I think that unfortunately, too many people find themselves in that situation.

It's like, Hey, we need to run a test. And again, this goes back to your initial story, which is why. Why do we need to run a test? What are we trying to achieve here? Like, will we need to do better? Oh, okay. But have we decided what better looks like and what is defined as better? And also why is what we need to do better in this area?

Have we really outlined and looked at all the different places where we could be improving upon? One of the things that I think you and I talked about a lot when we were at Weave was, you know, leads, scoring and the different ways and the [00:12:00] behaviors of leads, right? Leads from this bucket behave this way, leads from this bucket behave a different way.

So when you say go do better, Well, where, what, like what should we be working on? Where should we be working on it? Where is the buckets that we believe are going to impact the results the most? And I think that a lot of people find themselves in that situation. And have, I, I've realized that doing some consulting, you know, working with a handful of companies is they're like, we need to do better.

Okay, let's take a step back. Let's understand how we got here. Let's realize what has helped us be successful, and then let's identify where we can improve upon

Benjamin Ard: a hundred percent. So one big emphasis of this whole podcast is I'm a firm believer of B2B alignment, and if your internal teams are aligned, you are way better off.

You're gonna be able to grow the company better. You're going to achieve your results and you're gonna be able to just enjoy your job more cuz you're working with great [00:13:00] people you wanna work with. So I think data is one really interesting point because I know that people struggle with this all over the place, but how can marketing and sales actually align around data and so that they're actually telling the same stories and not fighting each other?

Yeah, it's a

Josh Brannan: good question and it's again, something that I recognize a lot when I've been working with these different companies is that they have different definitions and that is number one, I think that is the alignment bedrock that needs to be put in place. They are the definitions that both sales and marketing are looking at.

So a, they have to be able to speak the same language, so they're not walking into a room and providing different data to the executive team and talking about different numbers. They're always speaking the same language, so making sure that there's a real good definition around what everything means and also how it is measured.

Between the two, and you can slice and dice things as [00:14:00] thinly as possible, but I think people also get themselves into trouble when they try to go too deep. Let's make it as simple as possible. Let's start with the simple components of this, right? Do we have, do we understand what an MQL is? Do we understand what an SQL L is?

Are we aligned in those areas? Okay, great. Now let's bucket them in different ways. Okay? Again, it's just step by step in building this together. I think that when you have, you can have a very successful company with siloed departments that see their own success. But as you continue to grow, there becomes a gap in between departments and when you're a small company and successful, that gap, let's call it, is a quarter of a percent.

So it doesn't seem like it's that impactful. It's not hurting us that much, but that same quarter of a percent for a million dollar company is much larger. At 10 million is much larger, at a hundred million. So making sure that you continuously [00:15:00] are closing the gaps between departments so that they can work together in lockstep is very key.

So yeah, that's why I would say the bedrock of working well between sales and marketing is definitions. Around the different components or the customer journey. And then I would also look at it and say, okay, how can we work better together? Which means is what you are working on, how does, how can we compliment it and what we're doing?

How can we provide feedback to compliment what you are doing as well? So it's that give and take. It's not just, Hey, we're gonna be successful without you. You're gonna be successful without us. It can happen, but only to a certain extent. And I think that's where a lot of people miss the mark. Yeah, I know that there's a huge a huge what's the word I'm looking for?

Misalignment when it comes to marketing, having one goal and sales having a different goal. [00:16:00] Because then you're not rowing in the same direction of trying to achieve the same goal.

Benjamin Ard: Yep. Yeah. I love that. And the definition piece, I agree a hundred percent and I think a lot of companies don't do it because it's tedious.

And I also think a lot of groups don't do it because it doesn't put their department in the best light. Sometimes they want to tell a very different story. But I've seen this time and time again. The best way to derail a meeting from being productive is to bring up a number that people don't agree on.

And suddenly you're in the data. People are just arguing left and right saying, Hey, that's not the same number. That's not what we talked about. That's not what that means. That's not how I consider it an S SQL L. That's not what I need. And there's no better way to derail a productive meeting. Then to just get lost on definitions if you haven't had the discussion beforehand and make sure you're aligned, it can get real ugly.

And if you do that at the executive level or like O K R meetings with a [00:17:00] company or board level, things get real nasty really quick. You just have to do that that homework beforehand.

Josh Brannan: So looking, I was listening real quick. I was listening to a there was a podcast the other day. The guy is a bodybuilder and a scientist, and so he was talking about when he reads scientific papers, If you, if you look at a scientific paper, it's built out from a hypothesis or a thesis at the very beginning, somebody's opinion, what they're gonna be testing, all of that, what they expect to see, all of that.

Then you have the data that's in the middle, and then you have them doing a a recap at the end, right? With all of, but the beginning and the end are just sprinkled and peppered with opinions. And what they think and what they feel and all of that stuff, even though they're scientists. But at the begin, in the middle is the data.

In the middle is the numbers. And if you can, to your point, if you can agree on the numbers, right? Hey, let's get all the [00:18:00] reporting done, let's do all of these things. Okay? Do we all agree on just the numbers? Doesn't matter what they tell us at all. Do we just agree that it's black and white and the numbers are true?

Great. Now let's have a meeting. And let's figure out where there's areas, Hey, we didn't achieve this because of X, Y, and Z. Now let's look at those three different variables. There weren't enough there weren't enough leads at the top of the funnel, okay? That that's a fact. Period. Those leads did not convert well enough down into the middle of the funnel.

Okay? That's a fact. Period. So now let's figure out how can we improve upon those things versus, to your point, sitting in a meeting and going, well, I don't agree. There were more at the top of the funnel. No, there weren't the same number at the top of the funnel. And then it does get to the pointing the finger pointing.

Benjamin Ard: Yeah, I agree. So you touched on goal setting as well. I think this is a big deal. I look at the definitions, like kind of a sports analogy, not to bring up sports. I don't know. It's not bad to bring up sports. Sports are fun. Most people like [00:19:00] them. It's all good. You don't like them? I'm sorry. Yeah. But it's like looking at the, the scoring, right?

If you're in football, a touchdown equals six points. The point after is a seventh point. If you get a safety, it's x amount of points. All of that. You have to be aligned with that. Cuz if marketing's like, no, we scored 18 points on our touchdown, it's like, no, a touchdown's not worth 18 points, a touchdown's worth six points.

And it sounds fundamental because you know, everyone knows how you score in football and it's simple once you understand that and you have to be aligned, like you have to go to that level. I think I look at goal setting. Is to say, what's your responsibility in this game? And I think football's another great analogy here is, okay, great.

Are you offense? Are you trying to put points on the board? Are you defense? Are you trying to prevent points? Are you special teams? Whatever it may be, you have to define those and give yourself specific metrics. All of it adds up using the same metrics in the same end goal of having more points than the other team.

But I do think it's [00:20:00] important that you're aligned on goals. What are the best ways, like do you think marketing should have revenue goals? Do you think it should be lead goals that translate into revenue goals, pipeline goals, a combination? I know it's probably different for every company, but what are your personal

Josh Brannan: thoughts on that?

Well, so here's where the piece that I would break, or that I feel like a sports analogy and goal setting in business would break down is that in sports, your, your objective, your goal is to outscore. The other team to have more points on the board than the other team at the end of the game. Now the way you get to that is either by scoring more points in them or holding them to less points than you, right?

Situation when it comes to goal planning for a company and now, Let's say, I've only been with companies that are a hundred million or less, so I've not been with a, you know, billion dollar company, and maybe they do it better, but the majority of companies that [00:21:00] I've been with are like, Hey, we hit 50 million this year.

I wanna hit a hundred million next year. Right? Yep. That's their goal planning, that's kind of the start of goal planning. Yep. And. It's totally fine. That's how we are gonna do it, right? So we're gonna say, Hey, we're gonna double, so we need to do, we need to do another or we need to do a hundred million next year in bookings or revenue or however you wanna do it.

So then you say, okay, that's our number. Now everybody in every department go figure out how you're gonna, million. That's, I mean, that's kind of how we've done it, right, Ben? Yeah. Yeah. And so I look at that and I go, okay, well I wanna start with the goal. So I wanna say I wanna get here and now I wanna work my way backwards all the way to where I'm at and all the top of funnel and all the inputs and all the opportunities that we have and say, okay, if nothing changes, if we do, if we do it the exact same way we did this year, what are we gonna get to?

Well, this year we did 50 million, so if nothing [00:22:00] changes, we're gonna do 50 million again. Okay? So that's gonna get us 50. At least we now have that as a baseline. And marketing. You don't have to change anything. Sales, you don't have to change the, the offense, the defense, the exact same, but we actually have to do double well then there's a lot of different levers to pull.

Hey marketing, if you double your budget, are you gonna be, be able to bring in double the leads? And that's one way of looking at it. But then the question then come flows down and says, well, if we have double the leads coming through, does that mean now we need double the salespeople to execute on those?

Does that mean now that we need more people and support and all of that? And we, let's not get into Let's not get into the the customer journey after the fact. Let's stay on marketing and sales. So I look at that and I say, okay, or are there efficiencies that we can benefit from? Marketing, can you take 50% more budget and be more efficient with it?

Can we work together and say, Hey, these buckets are converting at the highest. These [00:23:00]ones actually take our time. These ones we're spinning our wheels on sales. Same type of thing. What can you do better? Can you convert with sales enablement and training? Can we close at a better rate? Can we set at a better rate?

Can we do these things? So you run these exercises to be able to say, okay, great. Sales and marketing have worked together. Marketing has said, Hey, with a 50% more budget, we're able to get to 75% more. Sales has said, okay with, you know, 50% more headcount and mark and training and development, we're able to get to 75.

So now we're at 75 million. So now we're still 25 million short. Maybe it comes down to product. Maybe it comes down to different departments within the company. But I think that if you go about it and say, Hey, sales, you go figure out how you're gonna get to a hundred million. Hey, marketing, you go figure out how you're gonna get to a hundred million and then I want you two to work together.

You're gonna come together with two entirely different plans and you've spent whatever time you had pretty much [00:24:00] wasted. Because all I've thought about is how can my department get to a hundred million? And it's going to be like, well, I have nobody to bounce my ideas off. I don't have my partner. My partner is marketing, and without them I can't get there.

And without me they can't get there. So why are we not in a room together trying to figure this out to be able to achieve the same goal?

Benjamin Ard: Yep. I love that. And at the end of the day, the goal that really matters for marketing and sales really is revenue. And I think that marketing Yeah.

Josh Brannan: And this goes back to your question, which I totally, totally, you're doing good, right?

Which is how do you measure it? Yeah. I mean, when it comes down to it, the entire business' focus is to get to revenue when it comes to sales and marketing. So over the years I've gone back and forth and I've moved my, the way I think about it a lot of different ways, right? Sales to me, when I was a sales rep was like, look, You know, I, I, I would say marketing did nothing for me, [00:25:00] which is very ignorant of me to say as of a young sales rep.

And the only reason I'd say that is because 90% of my sales were outbound. Now. Yeah. What I believed was outbound at the time was me picking up the phone, me generating interest, me closing the business, me moving the deal forward. What I didn't realize is all the air coverage that marketing was doing, that they were educating the space, that they were out there doing a lot of things.

So when I did call into a business, they might not have heard of. My company, but they understood a little bit of maybe what a product like mine did. So they're educating, they're doing that. So that was my ignorance factor in going there. But over time, I've looked at it and said, okay. It all does really depend if you are a heavy inbound sales organization or if you're a heavy outbound sales organization.

So if we were to say that we are, let's just call it 50 50, very clean, 50% is driven. [00:26:00]Primarily through website, through seo, through s e m, through all of those things, which helps drive people saying, Hey, I want to see your product. And then you have another outbound component of it where the AEs are, or SDRs are picking up the phone and calling and setting demos.

I look at it as sales, as an execution tool. That's really what it comes down to. We are an execution tool. Marketing job is to educate the marketplace so much so that either they're willing to raise their hand and say, I wanna see more information, or that when I call into that office as an sdr, I call into that business as an sdr.

They have some sort of understanding. Maybe not who we are, but maybe what we do. And so that drives the level of engagement even higher. But sales has to execute on the opportunities that marketing brings in. And marketing's job is to [00:27:00] just blast and educate and try to bring the knowledge of everyone.

That much closer to sales is the way that I would kind of look at their goals of marketing. Right. I love it. Not only is it hey, bring in MQs, bring in leads, but also educate the the market so much so that every single time I make a cold call, that cold call becomes easier and easier. So rather than having to call a hundred people to set 10 demos, I can call 50 people to set 10 demos.

Benjamin Ard: Yeah. And there's gotta be a lot of trust there as well, because you're not gonna be able to measure mm-hmm. That top of the funnel element. But as, as people are constantly working in that industry, if they have that confidence in each other, you know that those things are coming along. And there are ways of when people raise hands and things like that, you can ask them where they heard about you.

But yeah, absolutely. There's a big trust factor for some of those components too. I love it. Well, we're almost outta time, so I just, I want [00:28:00] one, a couple questions for you real quick. Yeah. And thank you for your time. This is incredible. So number one is, if you were talking, I mean, I'm a, I'm a marketing person by background.

If you were to, to have a brand new company, let's say you go into a brand new B2B business for you, they're, say they're established 50 million. You're trying to get to a hundred million this year and you meet a, the marketing leader at that company and you're the brand new head of sales. What is like the one thing you're asking that marketing leader to provide for you or how you wanna work with them so that you start things off on the right foot?

And so you can really say, Hey, when I work with marketing, this is like the most helpful thing that you can do for me, and this is how we're gonna get along. How does that conversation go a little bit?

Josh Brannan: Yeah. I think first and foremost, it goes back to is there a trust? And partnership there. I can't do it without you and you can't do it without me.

So if we can both [00:29:00] agree on that, can we, can we both get on the same page? Okay. We agree. Now let's turn the page and start working towards how we're going to get there. So that means that, let's, let's align on, again, definitions. Let's align on goals, let's align on expectations. Let's align on communication.

I think when, you know, any business partners is like any other marriage. Communication is key. Expectations are key. We, we fight and we argue if we have different expectations, if we have different communication than if we're on the same page. So it really does make sure that you're aligning yourself with that partner to be able to say, okay, how are we going to do this?

And if at any given point as we move forward, we don't see eye to eye. The worst thing that we can do is continue to move forward without the other person or start to move in different directions. We need to come together and we better sit in a [00:30:00] room and hash it out until we agree. Because if we walk outta that room with, Hey, I'm gonna go this way and I'm gonna go this way, then we're not going to be successful.

And if any leadership doesn't kind of force us to do that, then we're not gonna be successful as an organization. Awesome.

Benjamin Ard: I love it. Okay. Real quick, you're currently at Previ, right? What does Previ do and where can people find out about Previ if they wanna learn more about it? Oh, that's a great

Josh Brannan: question.

I'm still working on my 32nd elevator pitch here. Man, let's see if I can, if I can pull this one out.

Benjamin Ard: And this disclaimer, Josh has been at Previ for like a

Josh Brannan: week, but what is Previ? Previ wants to help people's money go farther. There's a better way to say that, but that's honestly what it is. You and I and everybody else, we have our monthly bills.

We pay for our cell phone every single month. We pay for our streaming services every single month. We pay [00:31:00] for health insurance, we pay for home internet. It's all of these things that we pay for every single month that right now we pay for them as a consumer. As a one person paying for their tools that they use every single month, previ wants to create the power in numbers.

They want to go to these vendors and be able to provide corporate benefits. To smaller companies and to consumers. So if you are a business of 10,000 people and you wanna go get a cell phone plan, you absolutely can. You'll get it at great discounted rates. Now, to do that, you have to be able to port numbers and also service those lines and bill for those lines.

So what Previ does as their first product offering is they went and partnered with T-Mobile Enterprise to bring enterprise solutions to smaller businesses and to consumers at amazingly discounted [00:32:00] rates. That's product number one. There'll be additional products that come out in the future to allow people to, again, buy thing in, buy things as a powerful membership program.

I love it. And what's the website? Who knows if that, I have no idea if that worked out well,

Benjamin Ard: if that Actually no, that's greats great. Or if

Josh Brannan: anybody be like that, I'm sold. I have no idea what the hell that meant. I'm sold com

Benjamin Ard: re.com. Super simple. Okay. Very cool. All right, Josh, thank you so much, dude. I really appreciate it.

Absolutely, Ben.

Josh Brannan: Dude, this was fun. I'm excited to kind of see where this goes, which will be cool.

Benjamin Ard: I hope you enjoyed the interview. If you'd like to see the video recording of this podcast, go to getmassett.com. Have a great day.