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- What happens when you interview a tech company's marketing and sales leader at the same time?
What happens when you interview a tech company's marketing and sales leader at the same time?
Miles Westover and Jake Goeckertiz Interview - The Alignment Advantage Podcast Sales and Marketing Edition
Benjamin Ard: [00:00:00] Hello and welcome to the Alignment Advantage Podcast, brought to you by Masset. This is the sales and marketing edition. In this edition, we interview some of the greatest sales and marketing minds in all of tech. We have a huge emphasis on internal alignment and believe that can be a superpower for your business.
We hope you enjoy the interview. Jake and Miles, thank you for being on the podcast. I really appreciate it. Yeah, nice to
Miles Westover: be here. Yeah, super happy to be you. Awesome.
Benjamin Ard: So what's cool is this is the first time we've ever had both a marketing and a sales leader on at the exact same time. We've spoken to both marketing leaders and sales leaders.
It's been a lot of fun. It's been great to hear their perspective, how they work with the other team. I think it's fun in real time to talk to the heads of both departments and really get your feedback. So, I think this is gonna be a lot of fun. I think this is gonna be super insightful, so appreciate you both scheduling out the time.
I know you're at a startup. It's busy and hectic. You guys drive the revenue side of things, so really, really do appreciate it.
Miles Westover: Yeah, we, yeah, we're lucky We're
Jake Goeckertiz: east.
Miles Westover: More [00:01:00] shirts just for you, Ben, so I love it. The
Benjamin Ard: Dennis Rodman t-shirts, you guys rebound together. Brothers who rebound together stay together, is that
Jake Goeckertiz: right?
Absolutely. Something like that. We're East Coast time too, so everybody's. They're all eating dinner now, so we're, we're golden Cool. Right now. Very cool. The
Benjamin Ard: joys of being in Mountain Time zone when everyone else is East Coast. Yep.
Miles Westover: That's awesome.
Benjamin Ard: Cool. Well, both of you guys are at Bull of ai. I'd love it.
Miles, if you could kind of just walk us through a little bit of context. What do you sell, who do you sell it to? Just so people can kind of have a broad idea for context for this
Miles Westover: conversation. Yeah, absolutely. So b AI is a AI voice component. In healthcare there's a lot of imaging AI components for image detection and things of that nature, but we're the only voice component in the marketplace right now that allows a voice assistant.
To help physicians chart in real time into their current practice management software. So we're specifically in [00:02:00] perio charting right now. We've got a lot of future releases that are gonna really help us get into every aspect of the charting experience for the physicians in the practice, but as of right now, we are strictly in perio with a clinical notes voice dictation product as well.
So physicians running through charts at the end of each day. They can also just talk to their computer. But the beautiful part about our tool is there's been other voice options in the past, not ai super clunky. It's like that, you know. Acura in the early two thousands that released its voice component.
You could talk to your car. It was this new great thing, and we all know how that really played out. You have to say exact voice commands, it repeats things back to you, and it's just, you know, really the user experience is very bad in a lot of cases. So for our tool and with, you know, the enhancements of voice technology over the years it really [00:03:00] is something that's just natural.
In talking to your computer. It's like talking to a real person. It's, you know, has 99% speech accuracy, so extremely accurate. It solves a lot of the pain points for physicians to be able to complete a perio chart and about half the time they normally would, and they're doing it with, you know themselves.
So, I love it.
Benjamin Ard: I love it. Really cool. So, when you look at your marketing and sales efforts, who is your buyer? Like obviously you're in healthcare. Physicians, are you looking at the front office staff? Are you looking at the physician themselves? Who are you actually communicating to when you're doing demos and running ads or doing emails or any other marketing activities?
Miles Westover: So primarily clinicians you know, the softwares that I've sold in the past, it's always revolved around operational processes for, you know, front desk. Anyone can use it, but it's primarily front desk people, is who you're demoing. Where this is, you know, Primarily based [00:04:00] around the clinician. Now we do have people that are using the note dictation tool regularly, but clinicians primarily, and that's been fun to, you know, see a change of pace because on the clinical side, when you're actually, you know, solving a clinical problem or error that's existed for so many years, that's when it really gets fun.
That's awesome. Yeah. Gets fun to sell. And you just really see, I mean, I think the focus in these AI tools that are being released is, I mean, what we're gonna see over the next 10 years is really just the enhancement of patient care. That's what it boils down to, is how can we enhance that overall experience for them and it revolving around patient care.
I think on the clinical side is what it's all about, right.
Jake Goeckertiz: I think to, to add to that, I mean we both have, we backgrounds miles and you know, not only that, but also just efficiencies within the practice as well. You know, like one of the greatest aspects of the product is it actually takes somebody that normally, [00:05:00] like the, the patient charting's usually a two person job.
Correct. With this new AI tool, we have the ability to alleviate that one role and have that person now. Start, you know, they can either go work with other patients to move along the process more or go get, you know, do more clinical note taking with our tool that actually gets them more money back from insurance.
And so we see we, we just did a third party study with a, a big group and found that it has a 16 x roi and a big portion of that is, Getting more patients in the door because of the efficiency of it and allowing to get more money from insurance companies because the efficiency of it. So, I mean, that's the thing about software is, is, is how can you create ROI and how can you be more efficient with it and not, cha not, not change the daily routine of the person, you know?
Yeah,
Benjamin Ard: for sure. Especially in today's economy, everything has to be basically ROI driven as far as the conversation goes. Oh yeah. Goes and I think. The clinical [00:06:00] side as well. But you know, as you're able to express that, that means a lot to these businesses as they're willing to invest their, their money in, in less places.
You know, they're holding onto it and they're a lot more, you know, kind of tight-fisted around it, which makes a lot of sense. And, and that's responsible.
Jake Goeckertiz: Yeah. I mean, and that's, sorry to add to that. I think that it's also like, you know, not only are you doing roi, but are you offering, like, are you the priority in that offices?
You know, line items, right? Like how do you become the priority and it's communicating, you know, how efficient you can create their office to be and, and how much money you can save them, and how it little deviation from their daily routine, et cetera, you know?
Benjamin Ard: Yeah, I love that. So, as you're, you know, a part of this fast growing startup, What has worked particularly well for your business?
You know, miles from the sales side, Jake from the marketing side. Full disclosure, Jake's been with the company full-time for like two weeks kind of an idea, so, we'll, we'll give him a [00:07:00] break on some of this stuff. But what has worked really well, especially during these economic times for you guys to continue to grow?
Miles Westover: Final. Go ahead. Yeah, go around. Yeah, so I, I think a number of different funnels obviously, and we'll give Jake a little credit. He's been part-time, you know, for the last six months, so that's been good. But yeah, we're. We're expecting a lot now that he's on,
Jake Goeckertiz: that's how it is always with sales, marketing comes on and then it's, oh, we're expecting a lot.
We need lots of sleeves, blah, blah, blah, three x
Benjamin Ard: tomorrow. That's how it
Jake Goeckertiz: goes. We need a $25 dollar C. Okay. Like that's what we're looking for. Yeah.
Miles Westover: No, but really, I mean, I think From the beginning, it's kind of one of the things that drew me to B was the alignment with strategic partnerships and various funnels.
So, I mean, really with zero salespeople at the time, before I had started they [00:08:00] had a formalized partnership with Henry Schein. And they were direct resell of our product. And when I found out, you know, the numbers of what they were able to produce for us monthly and obviously go through, you know, the product itself, I was like, okay, well that's the route we still want to go.
So the focus last year was, you know, capturing all of the big players. From an EHR side to, you know, dsl. So really strategic partnerships that I think have been huge for us because now, you know, we're going into this year with number one, two, and three numbers wise of dental companies for, you know, top three EHRs out there.
Along with the aspect of. Being able to tackle some of the largest DSOs in the marketplace. And again, knowing what kind of conversations were being had with some of these top DSOs before I had even started. I mean, these are clients that you know companies that I've been a part of in the past [00:09:00] and that I know of that don't have these kind of groups as a client yet.
And I think it just goes back full circle to speaking to the direct ROI that Jake had mentioned in some recent case studies that we've been able to perform, but also the clinical need for this tool. I mean, it's an absolute need. So, yeah, I mean, long answer to your question, but those have been the, the two things is.
Large, large dental organizations and strategic partners have been huge for us.
Benjamin Ard: I love that.
Jake Goeckertiz: Jake, what about the marketing side? Yeah, I, I mean, just to add to that, that actually is something that I think from a marketing standpoint, We don't always, like, we don't always pinpoint, right? Like I think that, you know, obviously time that we've, we, we, we saw partners, we had a really good BD department and I feel like as a marketing department, that was a area that we could have done more.
And I think that as I moved to sixth Sense, which was was my [00:10:00] previous company, that's really where I learned how important partners can be. And how great of an asset partners can be for marketing, you know, and coming to Bola, that was a big thing. You know, talking to Roshi, our c e o talking to Miles, talking about these relationships that we had, which, you know, through these relationships, we had the ability to go and, and already have a, had access to a very big portion.
Of the, the prospect base that we were trying to go and talk to. And so really building these partners up is a, is a, is a big priority for me and miles in 2023 because of the fact that, you know, I think that we get lost in this concept of, oh, we need to go and we need to hunt, right? Like, you gotta go hunt, you gotta go get these imbalance and you gotta get those form fills on the website and you lose sight of the fact of, well, if I could just.
Give more creative or more [00:11:00] incentive or more opportunity to these partners. They can go and hunt for me and I can just be a helper to them. Right? Like, have more calls with them, have more conversations of what do you need from us? And that's, that's the thing that I love about me and Miles' relationship starting from the beginning, right?
As a startup is we, we combat these partnerships together. And it's a, it's a total like cohesive front right? To these partners where it's like, we are here to help you guys make money, which we talked about that on our last call. Like, our goal is to make your sales reps rich, right? Like, we want you to get commissions.
We want, like, so that was one of the things that really stuck out to me is if these big companies are willing to partner with us and sell our product, or white label us or. Or send us leads, you know, then there's gotta be some type of, you know amazingness to it. And [00:12:00] we were seeing really good opportunities from it.
So to just, to, I think that we forget about how amazing partners can be and just building that relationship is so important. Yeah. I love that.
Benjamin Ard: So you talked a lot about partners as a, a big key to success, right? Mm-hmm. And I think that's great. Mm-hmm. I think a lot of times we do focus on like Jake, the hunting, you know, how do we go after the leads?
Mm-hmm. And the form fills and the individual contracts of the offices. And sometimes we do forget the partnership motion. How would you recommend a business go after partnerships? Like what's the process that you've found to be really effective in targeting the ideal partners, in actually getting ahold of them, getting them to actually take a meeting?
How do you approach those conversations? These are actually conversations that can take months and months to form. Mm-hmm. How do you stay at the front of their mind and just general advice for tackling partnerships in general.
Jake Goeckertiz: Actually, miles, [00:13:00] miles has been doing an awesome job interacting with some of these partners right now, and he's been working those, those like conversations.
So, I mean, miles you would've Awesome insight on that. That
Miles Westover: aspect. Yeah. A number of things. I mean, obviously value proposition is key, right? But once you can establish that Everyone knows every, you know, somebody in this, in this industry and competing products I mean, it's gotta stay competitive in that sense.
So I think once you can definitively show the value to one organization it. It's surprising how organic this can flow you know, from com, you know, competitor to competitor. And for me what I've observed over, you know, being here for nearly a, a year now and putting such a focus on the partnership side is the fact that if you have a product that you can really stand behind and show in the industry as.
That definitive [00:14:00] need and, you know, position it in a way that is beneficial to. Both parties with being big on price integrity. I mean, everyone talks. So there's a number of different things that I found in, you know, formulating him in the deal structure of just saying, look, this is the value that we're providing to, so the, you know, the person A, here's how we're gonna do it for you guys, and we're gonna maintain our price integrity and allow this to better the marketplace for everyone.
People get behind that and yeah, you know, it, it really has had an organic Flow for us in being able to get in the door with you know, speeding competing spaces. Of course there's networking and there's, you know, the various avenues that we can take to get there. Yeah, we've done that with some of 'em, right?
I mean, one was just simply running into them in a trade show, but again, I think when you can identify the first partner and then you can really get some meaningful data behind it as far as the value prop. That's [00:15:00] where the magic happens.
Jake Goeckertiz: Cool. I think to add to that too is I think that the fact that we integrate very seamlessly and simplistically and it's not a hard onboarding process.
Our CEO and our CS teams have done a really good job of figuring out how to simplify our onboarding process and so we don't create headaches for their. Their customer bases. You know, like it's, it's a lot simpler of a process to get somebody from not having bola to having bola. And I think that's huge.
Like the integration, the simplicity, simplicity of onboarding, those are big pieces that, you know, ROCI, our C E O and our CS team put a lot of effort into figuring out. And I think that if you do want to go that route, you have to figure out how to make it, make it very simple for your partners. So you're not a headache to them because then you're not a good partner to them.
Benjamin Ard: I [00:16:00] love that. How do you make sure that you're not competing when you're doing direct sales with your partnerships? How have you kind of ensured everyone's comfortable with that?
Miles Westover: So, you know, tracking is obviously a big part of that. So we, you know, for existing partners, we would want salespeople to implement their sales info into every deal sold, right?
So when it comes to us, we know we're not stepping on toes there. But. For, that's a great question, by the way, because I mean, I think every organization that sets up a partner as a reseller, you're, it's just inevitable you're gonna have that, right? Yeah. So for, for us, what's worked so far is I think just stage of company number one of where we're at, right?
Yeah. The, the larger we get, it's, we're, it's definitely going to be something we have to pay even closer attention to. But what we've done in the time being is just Putting a customer first before anything else. So there's been times, for example, that I've gotten into [00:17:00] a client meeting done, you know, All of the steps for demoing follow up and so on.
And then they have just gone to, let's say their, you know, specific vendor who white labels us, signed up through them. I can't be upset about that at the end of the day, right now, it's one of those things where we just have to collaboratively work together, say, great, I'm glad that you got signed up, excited to work with you and move on.
Right. And I think that's the biggest key is just like in any department internally is where we can. Not, we can eliminate the friction, but just overall better, the collaborative relationship between both organizations and put the customer first, that's what's gonna, you know, be best for everyone.
Benjamin Ard: Yeah, I love that.
That's great. I
Jake Goeckertiz: think go ahead real quick. I think another thing, and it speaks to the culture, you know, of, of just bola in general and Miles like. Not looking at it from a, this is good for boa, no matter what type scenario, you [00:18:00] know? And I think that as a sales leader, like a marketer, like wa, watching a sales leader like that, like that makes me a lot happier because it just shows me that his whole goal is the success of the company.
And that's what my goal is. And I mean, to be honest, like that's hard to come by when it comes to sales reps. Like, you know, they're kind of, this is mar, this is marketing, but they, they want, they're focused on how much their commissions are gonna be, right? So I'm, I'm grateful that Miles is like, Hey, you know what?
This is great. I'm not ruffling feathers. It's better for the good of the company. And if you have a sales leader like that, it trickles down big time. And I think that that's really, really big. Yeah,
Benjamin Ard: that's great. So Jake, you brought it up, commissions, you're just brand new at Ebola. How do you guys structure compensation and goals?
[00:19:00] And I'd love to hear how you've built them so that you're both aligned. Cuz there are times where sales, most of the time comp structure really makes sense. Right? It's pretty straightforward. It's always towards revenue, things of that nature. Mm-hmm. Hitting the company goals on marketing, it can be very different, right?
Yeah. It can be just leads, it can be other activities. Sometimes it is revenue. How do you structure it so you both feel comfortable with the activities that you both are doing and like how do you hold each other? Responsible to make sure that those things are getting done.
Jake Goeckertiz: So that was actually one of the very first conversations.
Not, not so much commissions, but more alignment that me and Miles had. We worked through our 2023 planning and when me coming on at the time that I did really helped you know, the very first of the year I've been contracting for a few, like, you know, six months. So we are able to kind of.
Understand, you know, from a contractor's point of view, okay, we did this many inbound [00:20:00]leads. We were able to close this percentage. And so we were able to sit down and together we created these like base minimums of, okay, if I, if I get this many form fills, this is how many of those on average, like, like, you know, a bottom level number, right?
This is the percentage of that will be qualified. This is the percentage that we'll be able to set. This is the percentage we'll be able to demo, and this is the percentage that we'll be able to close. And I think that that's such an important conversation for sales and marketing to have, and not, not every year, but like this is a continuous conversation, you know, because the goal is, is every month or every couple weeks, you have that conversation and, and it's okay, how do we better these numbers?
Like what is our new average? And to me, that's such an important conversation because when you're aligned on those things, it's a lot easier to go into that [00:21:00] room and say, okay guys, we missed this percentage. How can we do this? How can we fix this problem? You know, in in past companies it's been well, what is marketing doing?
Or what is sell's doing to fix this? And it's more been, it's more been finger pointing, right? Like, well, you own this. Well actually no, you own this. But I think that that's been. If you can create that relationship from the start and you can work that funnel together, it just offers you know, we both own that number together, and I think that that's super important.
And to lead into your conversation of commissions, I think that that makes the commission conversation a lot easier because of the fact that now you say, okay, if I get this many leads, this is how much revenue it should end up being. So then you can say, okay, well based off our numbers, like we can comp marketing on leads, we can comp marketing on revenue that [00:22:00] should be sold based off of this number.
Or you can comp marketing on, you know, it le it's, it's a leading indicator, lagging indicator conversation at that point because you've actually solidified all these numbers and the c e O was seeing those and signed off on them as well. Yeah. Very cool.
Miles Westover: Yeah, that, I mean, that was a big reason as to why, even in the stage that we are as a company, why I was so keen on.
You know, having Jake come first before the expansion of our sales team. And I think it's because obviously the market and sales alignment, you know, if you can really form that alliance between two of your members of your leadership team in two different departments, From the marketing or sales standpoint, that's where the magic really happens.
And so from day one, since Jake has come in, we've set obviously a, a revenue target. And you know how, [00:23:00] and given the simple breakdown of what Jake just mentioned, of how we're going to achieve that, but. Again, it comes back down to value proposition as well, where marketing, you know, a lot of times let's, they'll, their focus is, let's take for example, cold calling.
Nobody in a lot of ways, in my opinion cold calling for sales is dead in, in a lot of ways right now. That doesn't mean, that doesn't mean that I'm saying, oh, don't ever pick up a phone. Absolutely not, right. Really what I'm meaning by no cold calls is mm-hmm. At this point, you know, where we can make the biggest difference with each other is Jake helping set sales up to a place where we have warm warm leads to call that we know our target market.
And we know the value proposition going on to each one of those calls, you still have to absolutely make calls, but sales leaders are gonna care where, you know, marketing would maybe, for instance, how do we get to [00:24:00] how do we get to the cold calling? Or excuse me, how do we get to, you can edit some of this, right?
Man, so, so really though, no, what I'm getting at is where, you know, pertaining to a cold call and how we can shift that focus is, Marketing is gonna target keywords and analytics and, you know, a lot of those elements as to what brings the customer in, but where they can really provide meaningful value. I think sales leaders are definitely gonna care more about forecasting accuracy and, you know deal acceleration.
That's, I mean, that's what we're here to do, right? Is we're here to hit a number every day. So if we can align both of those things and say, okay. Then how do we go into that initial call with that contact and have the key word that is most meaningful provided to our salespeople? Totally different conversation.
We're not now. First attempt, first outreach. Just another cold sales call that [00:25:00] everyone despises and is hanging up in the first 20 seconds. Right? Yeah. We're coming in with a true value proposition and that, and that's where if our alignment is, you know, focused on that, that's where the magic again happens.
Perfect.
Benjamin Ard: Okay, so let's say just cuz we have you both here, I think this is a fun exercise and a good way to approach these kinds of conversations. Let's say Jake, January misses his number Miles. How do you approach that conversation, Jake? How do you approach that conversation? What's the right way? And I'd love to hear vice versa.
What's the right way with your counterpart in marketing enter sales to approach the difficult conversations? The ones where it's like, shoot, we missed and we gotta fix this. How do you both approach those kinds of conversations?
Jake Goeckertiz: You know, go ahead, miles.
Miles Westover: Okay. So I was just gonna say, you know, so I think I mean, Jake and I have a friendship outside of of work as [00:26:00] well, right?
And so that's not the case for every department head, right? That's just not ever going to apply. But at, at times, that could also, depending on the friendship it could even be more of a challenge at times for some of those hard call outs, but I really think that, you know, if you believe in meritocracy and you believe in, you know, your efforts result in certain outputs.
The relationship has to be one that obviously, you know, the friendship's there, but we're doing each other a disservice if we don't call each other out on. You know, certain metrics or certain goals that we set at the beginning and one falls short in. And I think in doing that obviously going about it, you know, in a.
With a matter of diplomacy. Sure. Like, yeah. You know, be like, there's a way you can reiterate these, this feedback and conversation without ruffling feathers. But at the same time, I think those conversations are inevitable [00:27:00] and there will be hard call outs from time to time, but it's learning. Okay. Not necessarily shifting the focus from one department to the other of, oh, it's all your fault, it's all marketing's fault because of this.
Right. It's. Taking the approach of how, here's what we did you know, this department fell short in this area. Here's how I think we can make up for that as a team collectively next quarter. Yeah, I love that.
Jake Goeckertiz: Yeah. I so I, I mean, I think that in every company, If you are interviewing for marketing or if you are interviewing for sales, if the CEO or whoever you're interviewing with does not set up time for you to visit at least an hour with the the VP of sales, of the VP of marketing, like, you know, whatever role you're interviewing for, you ask to do that because, It is vital that you have a relationship and you know that you [00:28:00] can vibe well with the VP of marketing, of the VP of sales.
And I say that because I've been in situations where as a VP of marketing I, my views are not the same as the VP of sales. The way I work is not the same as the VP of sales and the things that I expect from sales is not aligned with what the sales leader is doing, and it creates a really strong, like a really hard.
Space to work. And that's why I think that even if Miles were, and I were not friends outside of this, we align, you know, a lot on just the, the normal basics of numbers and ideology and where we want to go and all of those things. And it makes those harder conversations so much easier. Like for me, like Miles says diplomacy, but for me it's probably a ca a call of like, Hey, what are you doing?
You're killing me. Like, it's not diplomacy at [00:29:00] all. Like it's, it's fun and it's, and it's, and it's, it's funny, but it with, it's obviously hard, right? Like I think that for us, because we have a relationship and we vibe and we know each other, even if we're not friends. We, we'll have those conversations and they'll be easier because of the fact that we knew each other before we became married, and marketing and sales leaders have to be married.
Mm-hmm. And that is so important. And so for me, like if it, you know, and I think that Miles is the same, if I miss my number, it's dude, I, I think we're both owners, you know, like I, I messed up, like I didn't do this. I didn't do this. I should have got this done. I was stuck trying to do this like, I think that there's a conversation of this is what went wrong, this is how I can fix it for the next month or quarter, or whatever you're talking about.
But I think that that's a big thing too, are are you an owner or are you a pointer? You know? And so I think Miles and I are both owners and I think that [00:30:00] that's really important. And I think that Miles and I both really want to win. And I think that that's a big thing too, like winners own, like that's the biggest thing.
Like if you want to win, You own your mistakes and you try to fix your mistakes, and you take that feedback and you don't get hurt or offended or whatever. Like, you just, you own it. And Miles is good about that. Like, he'll make fun of me and then tell me what I did wrong and it fits, you know, and Jake
Miles Westover: has no problem calling me out either.
He's real good about, let, let me know when I mess up. But again, I wouldn't have it any other way. Right. I mean, again, he would be doing me a disservice if, if he couldn't have those meaningful conversations and call outs, because that's how we get better. I agree.
Benjamin Ard: I love that. Yeah. From my perspective, you know, another leader respects you.
You know, obviously you have the numbers and if someone missed their number, you know, you know it [00:31:00] and you know that everyone else knows it. There's no question about it. You know, when the other person respects you enough. To have that conversation right away and say, okay, where did we mess up? What happened here?
It's the leaders that don't address it with you and just let it slide that you have to have concerns about cuz they've just written you off to a degree and you need to make sure you do that. The second point that I think really arranged true with you guys, you have to approach that conversation and the words may not change, but the intention has to be very different if you approach it as a frustration.
Kind of a conversation. You're not gonna make it productive no matter what you say, but if you approach it from this mentality of collaboration where I'm walking into this and I'm coming out with a solution and we're gonna win together, that's great. Like, those are the guys that go into the huddle and say, Hey, we're gonna make this a, a group effort instead of just gimme the ball you guys get out of the way.
I'll make it happen. It's a team [00:32:00] effort. I got your back. You've got my back. Let's work together and get this done. Because as someone who firmly believes in the alignment, and I think you both agree with it as well, it never lies entirely on marketing and it never entirely lies on sales. It's always a combination.
Now the scales will be tipped, marketing can screw up, sales can screw up. Something can happen where it's mostly one fault, but most of the time it's probably a gap between the two. And it's usually a a, a factor of both departments.
Jake Goeckertiz: You know, and I think that I knew that these shirts would come into play, bro, because like, I, I just think of like Dennis Robin and the dude, the dude was willing to do whatever he needed to do to win and was willing to fill in any of the gaps that needed to be filled in.
And you know, like I think that that's the mentality you have to have, especially at a startup like me and Miles. Like, that's one thing that I respect a ton about Miles. And you know, like we're [00:33:00] doing the nitty gritty right now. Like we're not, we don't have teams of 20 people or whatever, like we're teams of one.
And you know, we chose this path because we knew that like, that, you know, we knew that it was gonna be fun, it was gonna be you know, our blood and sweat was gonna go into, we knew that winning and leadership and all that stuff has a price and we're paying that price right now and we're gonna pay that price throughout this whole process.
And so, You know, I think that that's a big thing too. Like, I think that that makes for you know, mutual respect for each other.
Miles Westover: A hundred percent. I mean, that, you know, for Jake to come over from the organization he was just at where he had a team member really in multiple roles, and now he's wearing all hats again.
I mean, it just goes to show, I think, you know, the level of willingness that, and how really Jake believes in this product moving forward of how, you know, Putting your head down and getting back to work in areas that maybe you were doing in the [00:34:00] first few years of your career. But doesn't matter, I mean, the overall goal and vision of what this can be is, is what's exciting.
Yeah. And he saw that, and I have all the respect in the world for him to look beyond, you know, just a title and a role in saying, Hey, you know, We're gonna, we're gonna do it all. And until we can get to that point where we can hire a, you know, same caliber of team that he was just with and and make, you know, make something happen.
So,
Benjamin Ard: yeah, I think everyone in the startup has to realize there is no such thing as just coaches. You know, there's always, you're always a player coach. And honestly, for. Pretty much ever you're gonna be a player coach. Like, if you're not contributing on a regular basis, there's probably something wrong.
You know? And even if your team is getting bigger and bigger, you know, you're, you're kind of in the startup mode if you can realize that you're a player coach at all times.
Jake Goeckertiz: Yep. Yeah, I, I mean, dude, I [00:35:00] think that, As a, in marketing, especially like I know as sales grows, like there's so much that you have to start doing.
And I mean, it's the same in marketing, but I think that marketing is changing so rapidly all the time. New softwares do, techniques changing of, you know, COVID, O V D made things go, keep ski wampus and all this stuff. And I think that if you're not as a leader, if you're not a player coach, you slowly see yourself.
Like be pushed out of someone's, you know, that you slowly see yourself get pushed out of the. The God that doorbell ring just got me good. Sorry. No, you're good.
Benjamin Ard: The joys of live recording
Jake Goeckertiz: the doorbell. Can I google in my office? Okay. Let me re you. Okay. So you slowly see yourself start to fade out.
Like I've seen this with CMOs in the past. You legitimately slowly see yourself start to fade out and. You see people start [00:36:00] to, you know, pass you up and you don't know the techniques. Like, so it's just super important to stay relevant. And the way you do that is being a player coach. Yeah, I agree. Yeah.
Benjamin Ard: And that involves a level of passion for what you do. Yeah. Right. As you're passionate about what you do, you're gonna want to be the best at what you do and, and that means you're always gonna stay on top of it and kind of keep the blade sharp. Yeah. So we're running out of time. This has been awesome.
I'd love to ask one final question, basically, from each of you as a sales leader, miles and Jake, as a marketing leader, what is the number one thing that you have seen your counterpart do that can help build alignment between the two departments? If you had to pick one thing that you've seen currently or in the past where you're like, wow, as a sales leader, this marketing leader did this.
And that built some serious credibility and some bridges. That was amazing. That would be my [00:37:00] advice to any marketing leader. Same with you, Jake. On the sales side, this is what I've seen sales leaders do that has just blown me away and I have complete trust in them. What up, Jen? Give me, do you wanna gimme one second.
We're wrapping up this other one too. Yay.
Miles Westover: I'm so sorry
Benjamin Ard: to cry. This is a preview for the next one. This is great.
Jake Goeckertiz: That's sweet. That's so good to see you, Jake. Yeah, you too. I really hope you air us way before you air Jen's, because we're gonna look real bad. No. Like air ours. And then Jen's like six months later.
I love
Benjamin Ard: this. I'm so sorry. This is great. No, you're awesome. You're, you're on time. We're late. You're perfectly okay. I'll see you guys
Jake Goeckertiz: see ya.
Miles Westover: Jake, you want to go first?
Jake Goeckertiz: Yeah, I can go first. One of the things that I've seen Miles and other sales leaders do is understand Salesforce. Like for [00:38:00] me, that is such an important skill when I'm working with sales leaders that I need them to understand because I put a lot of effort into understanding Salesforce building reports, understanding the funnel.
And I've had really great leaders that have helped me to understand the importance of data and understand the importance of under, like where to go find stuff within your c r m and, and I say Salesforce cuz that's what I'm used to. HubSpot, whatever c r m you're using, right. And. Me and me and Miles worked together like three, four companies back at a company called Banyan, and I noticed how organized Miles was in Salesforce back then, like this was a long time ago, and it stood out to me as, okay, this guy knows what he's doing and there's a reason why he's the number one rep.
And I saw it at Weave together. And I've seen it since I've come on it, you know, at Bola, the [00:39:00] guy understands Salesforce and he understands how to progress a prospect through Salesforce and we've actually worked on the sales process together. And working with him, knowing what he's doing has been a ginormous thing for me in gaining respect for him as a sales leader.
I've been around sales leaders that hadn't even logged into Salesforce, literally a VP of sales, and that to me was like, wow, like how can this guy be a sales leader? How can he understand anything that's going on? If he can't build a report, build a dashboard, any of that stuff doesn't understand the funnel.
So that to me is one thing that's really stood out to, as was something that Miles has done, is something that if any sales rep wants to gain respect from me, that's one of the areas that they could do that.
Miles Westover: I love that. That's great. Yeah. And you know, for me, I've seen, I've been on part of five different SaaS organizations up to this point, some large, much larger scale [00:40:00] than others.
Right. And Where I've seen, I'll, I'll start with the misalignment that I've seen more of is when there's friction between both organizations and the, you know the goal in mind between both department heads is not clear or it's undefined. That is where you see, you know, the friction begin. And so for me, one of the greatest qualities of Jake's background and other great marketing leaders that I've, you know, observed in the past is,
Jake Goeckertiz: The focus, you know,
Miles Westover: obviously our focus as marketing and sales head is revenue, right?
And I think that's really the primary focus of what it boils down to for everyone. And so in determining revenue and how to get there, though the collaboration between marketing and sales you know professional is really gonna be. Lead generation and how do we keep these salespeople [00:41:00] fed?
And Jake has really gone about this in a number of different ways, but. Lead gen is so key to getting us in front of as many prospects on a regular basis as possible to really hit those numbers. And he understands the numbers behind what it takes to get there. I mean, you don't, it's not just, oh, he's coming in and making our product look good.
Our website looks great. That that's all great, but that's fluff. I mean, when it really comes down to it is, Do you have an eye for, you know, do you have an eye for all of that? But to the same token beyond making something look attractive, where's the value proposition and how are we going to generate these leads for our salespeople?
And Jake does a phenomenal job at doing that.
Benjamin Ard: I love it. Awesome. Well thank you both for coming on. It's kind of fun to have both sales and marketing leaders on at the same time and get the truth out of each other. And yeah, there's always a fun few jokes as you work [00:42:00] together cuz there's always a little bit of tension, but really appreciate it.
For anyone listening, if they want to find out about bola, how do they look? You guys up?
Miles Westover: So, yeah, num, number of ways. Bola ai, that's gonna be the best. Fill out a form fill, we'll give you a call. But from there Jake was gonna have more insight on that now cuz he's putting his efforts into a lot of.
Different avenues of how to get in contact. So I'll let you go from, take it from here, Jake
Benjamin Ard: plus it. If you fill out the form, Jake hits his numbers.
Jake Goeckertiz: Right? Amen. Yeah. So even if you're not interested in a demo, just come fill the form out for me
because that's, that's all we care about in marketing is just form fills. Yeah. It raises our conversion rates and that's what we present on. But yeah, I mean, it's just, it's just bolo ai. Like come check out our website. We actually, this is, this kind of threw us for a loop, but it was [00:43:00] kind of cool we got compared by a big company to Peloton.
So as a marketer, that makes you feel pretty good. But but yeah, be it BOLO AI and we are on LinkedIn and Facebook too, like we're trying to grow our, you know, following there. Finally posting some really good content. Got some good content coming through the pipe here soon too, which will be really awesome.
So yeah. Awesome.
Benjamin Ard: Love it. Well, thank you both for taking the time and have a good day and hopefully your relationship is better, not worse because of this whole
Jake Goeckertiz: podcast. Thanks, Ben, man. Thanks for having us. You bet.
Miles Westover: It's been great. Yeah.
Benjamin Ard: I hope you enjoyed the interview. If you'd like to see the video recording of this podcast, go to get massett.com.
Have a great day.